Grief Took Everything, and Then it Gave Me Love

In this deeply personal episode, Arlyne Solis explores how heartbreak, in all its forms, can become a portal to deeper self-love, healing, and connection.

From the loss of family members to the unraveling of a 15-year relationship, Arlyne shares how grief and love are inextricably linked, and how losing what (or who) we love can lead us back to ourselves.

This is a story of heartbreak, healing, and the unexpected ways love finds us when we’re willing to sit with pain, not run from it. If you've ever felt lost inside your own story, this episode will remind you that grief is not just an ending, it's an invitation to return to who you really are.

Yes, this episode will break your heart a little… but it will also gently put it back together with more light and self-love than it had before.

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Transcript

Welcome to I Will Know You

Speaker 1 0:06

Welcome back to another episode of the I Will Know you podcast with your host, arlene Solis. I'm so excited to be here with you for a third episode. I know you caught the new name. We're getting there right. Solis is my family's name. It was the name that I grew up with. Let's talk about a layer of self that you learned about. It was a name that I grew up with until I went to high school. When I went to high school, I was told that I needed to go by what was my birth certificate, which I didn't know was a different last name. It doesn't even matter, because it's not the one that I'm taking back. I am taking back my family's name and that is Solis. So, as you hear these episodes moving forward, that is how I will be introducing myself, and I'm excited for you to get to know me as Arlene Solis.

Speaker 1 0:57

For today's episode. We are diving into love and I know that you've been waiting for my love life and to hear what's going on there, and I have some good news for you and some bad news for you. The good news for you is that you are gonna hear about it. The bad news for you is that my love life is my whole life now, meaning I love so many parts of my life now. I used to think that love was something that was constrained to a romantic relationship. I really felt like if you hadn't been in love in a romantic partnership, it was hard to think about love. And, of course, we love our family, we love our friends, we love our pets, but I didn't really sit in the presence of that love until I learned to love myself. With that comes also a level of grief, and so we're going to tie in together love, grief, impermanence and how these are things that will help you create a foundation for the way that you love yourself.

Speaker 1 2:11

I think a lot about as I was preparing for this episode and I was writing down some moments that I've not loved myself, moments that I feel like I've really loved myself, and then moments when I have felt some of the deepest love, and I was often brought back to a thought of loss and how loss shaped me and how loss and grief were things that were coupled with love. And I had this conversation recently with my mom and I feel like lately I've been saying it a lot to people, but one of the lessons you don't get to learn about love until you experience loss is that it's not permanent. And I remember saying to her, in talking about some of the losses I've had in my family I don't think it's fair that you get to experience these amazing people. So for me, talking about my grandpa, my cousin, my nino, my grandma, many others out there, but those four have been some of the most impactful losses that I've ever had. And I think to myself, if somebody would have told me back then hey, you're going to meet these people, they're going to be amazing and you're going to love them so much, but you're going to lose them. You only get them for a certain amount of time. Would I have loved differently? And I know that that's a big question to ask of myself. It's a big question for you to ask yourself that that's a big question to ask of myself. It's a big question for you to ask yourself.

Speaker 1 3:51

But I have really been grappling with this notion of the impermanence of love, especially as I come up on almost the finalizing of my divorce, and that was somebody that I was with for 15 years. And there's still love. There will always be love, I believe, between the two of us because we grew up together, but that was also a love that I can remember. Being so scared of losing and not having that was one of the worst things that could happen to me. And here I am, I'm okay. I'm going through stuff. This is hard but I'm okay. And one of the things that I realized as I because before I actually filed for divorce was in a long separation period, and a big part of that was, I think, because I wasn't recognizing that I was about to approach grief and I knew grief really, really well. But as I've gone through this process, and I continue to go through this process, I see grief and love neck and neck and I don't know if I ever did.

Speaker 1 4:53

I always felt like grief was just something that is so draining and it hurts so much. How do I even create a space where love comes from that? But it's the understanding of having one without the other right Like you, can't have something beautiful without seeing something that's not. Otherwise, how would you know that that's beautiful? Right, understanding great music for maybe something that's not incredible, loving my podcast voice versus maybe another one which, by the way, I have to say, the way that you all love my podcast voice makes me so happy way. I have to say, the way that you all love my podcast voice makes me so happy, the amount of messages I have gotten from people telling me that you love my podcast voice. Even people that I talk to regularly in my everyday life are just like oh man, I love that voice, thank you. But I digress. My whole point in all of this is saying that this episode obviously is a big one, but it's important to me to talk about the way that we look at love, the way that we approach love, the way that love is in our lives and how grief is a part of that, and when we are able to create a strong inner knowing which allows us to love ourselves. That's what helps carry us through so many of these experiences and this grief.

Speaker 1 6:16

So let's get started. I know you're really excited right now. You're like oh, it's going to be so light and exciting, all right. So I do want to start off with kind of actually, I'll give you a little bit of a visual here. So I am. Let's go back to what grade was this? I want to say this was fourth grade, maybe fifth grade, maybe fifth grade. Okay, let's go back to fifth grade.

Speaker 1 6:44

And I am so excited because I'm spending the night at my cousin's house. I'm getting ready for a concert. I'm going to go see you're not even going to believe it. I was going to go see Brandy and Britney Spears was opening for her. Britney Spears was not Britney Spears yet, but Brandy was, and so I was. I knew who Britney Spears was and Baby One More Time was out. She just wasn't exactly who she is now and I basically remember.

Speaker 1 7:14

I am so excited. I'm getting ready, I take my shower, I'm, you know, getting ready for bed and I'm visiting in another city. And so I go to bed and I hear the phone ring and it's kind of late and because I'm at my cousin's house, I have other cousins that are with me, my sisters are with me and we're all in sleeping bags on the floor and I hear my mom let out. It's hard to, it's weird. It's like I can picture myself in this moment and bringing it back, it's also hard to recall. But I can hear my mom pick up the phone and let out this huge cry and then essentially throw up and I'm like wait, what's happening? And I can hear her saying are you sure? Are you sure? Are you sure? And I wasn't sure what she was talking about.

Speaker 1 8:03

And then, in the midst of all this and keep in mind I'm in, I believe I'm in fifth grade, I think I was. This was in the year 2000. So I was 11. And I'm really confused about what's happening. And then my mom, as calmly as she can, tells me and my sister that my cousin Daniel who of all my first cousins you know, you have your cousins and your first cousins I really hope you got that Mean Girls reference if you're listening to this my cousins, of all of my cousins and my first cousins, I had one male first cousin.

Speaker 1 8:41

His name is Daniel and Daniel was one of probably my first great loves. Like I loved my cousin Daniel so much. He was like a brother. I've grown up with sisters only he was my only my only kind of lifeline to what a brother was like. And so, growing up with Daniel, lots of pranks, he was hilarious, oh my gosh. The jokes that he would play on our family were ridiculous and he had this bright, bright smile and personality and he was captivating and kind and loving. And I could go on and on and on and I only got 11 years with him and unfortunately he only got 16 years on this earth.

Facing Life's Hardest Goodbyes

Speaker 1 9:24

And so my mom tells us Daniel's been in a car accident and he passed away. And I remember feeling like this is not real, like that can't be right, and I was asking her over and over again are they sure it's him? Are they sure it's him? Because I just, it was just so hard for me to fathom this. And again, I'm 11. So my world isn't huge and that life was never the same after that. It just wasn't. We packed up the car, we drove two hours home from Santa Maria, santa Paula, and we walked into my grandma's house and there's my whole family. And it's wild because, like I'm 35 years old telling you about this and you can hear my voice shaking because it was a pain I had never felt before Daniel and to this day, like I mourn him, but my family's in the dining room, and my grandpa was a former alcoholic and he didn't really drink and neither did my grandma, and my grandpa was a former alcoholic and he didn't really drink and neither did my grandma, and my grandma and grandpa were actually had a bottle of tequila at the table and everyone's just crying and realizing the magnitude of what's happening here and again, life was just really never the same after that.

Speaker 1 10:41

The next few months were a blur of. My mom went to go help my uncle plan my cousin's services because nobody in my family had lost a child, and so my mom, I stayed with my grandpa and my sisters my older sister and my younger sister and so not having my mom at that time was tough, because I needed her, her, but her brother needed her too. And now that I'm in my mid-30s, right, I understand, but then I just I really didn't, and I remember just not just being so sad about this and not understanding grief and not understanding impermanence and just thinking really I'm never going to see Daniel again. This just doesn't make sense to me. Like I just I was having the hardest time wrapping my head around it until everybody came home. So my uncle and my cousins lived in Reno and they ended up having services there for him with his friends and his with his friends up there, and then they ended up flying his body back here to Southern California and that's where we had his actual funeral and his rosary and all of that. And it was so hard to this day. That is something that will live with me forever.

Speaker 1 12:13

It's a hard one. When I look back at the first time I saw Daniel in his no longer having his spirit, it was devastating and it was weird and it was scary and I just wanted to grab him and say, hey, wake up Like Daniel, come on, stop playing Like I don't. I just want to give you a hug, I just want to say hi I just because he was right there. But he wasn't there and that was so hard for me to take in, and I don't even know how many times I've said that was so hard. I just can't think of another way to say it because even as an adult woman now, like I said, I just that was a pain I hadn't felt before and I remember just crying and crying and crying and the condolences and the people bringing food over and just all the elements of death, and yet still I continue to love right, like I felt, like I clung to my family tighter.

Speaker 1 13:32

I learned that there is impermanence in love and that impermanence in general in life, but especially in someone or something that you love so much. That was my first big loss and I was only 11 years old. So that fall my mom had noticed that one side of my grandpa's face was drooping and they thought maybe he had had a stroke and he kind of wasn't as present as he had always been. And my grandpa, for me, was like my dad. I didn't grow up with my dad. He's not around, he chose not to be in my life and I lived with my grandparents off and on through a lot of my childhood and so the same way that Daniel was kind of my anchor or my compass or my connection to what having a brother was like, my grandpa was my connection to what having a dad was like. Besides my uncles. I've always I was close to my uncles as well, but my grandpa because we lived there my grandpa was such an incredible man. He came out of his retirement. He had worked on the assembly lines at General Motors and he came out of his retirement to work as a grounds keeper at a private school so that my sisters and I could have that education. That's how incredible of a man he was and that's how deeply he loved his girls and they start going and getting tests and all of that.

Grief and Love Intertwined

Speaker 1 15:10

And my grandpa ended up having cancer and it originally was just, I believe. And again I'm recalling from my childhood I probably could have talked to my mom about this, but I'm sorry, mom, I'm sure we don't need to have this conversation, oh God. But he had a tumor in his brain and he had a few in his lungs and so he started doing chemotherapy and radiation and unfortunately it just it didn't work. And here we are, not that far later. So my cousin Daniel passed away in July of 2000. And my grandpa was gone by March of 2001. And that again a huge devastation for me. It was like I knew it was coming once. We knew he was sick, but then in a way that was where the love part of it felt, like either I ramped this all the way up or I back off because this is gonna fucking hurt. And again, I'm not saying that I don't think I was saying that at 12. But I remember thinking I only have X amount of time left with my grandpa, like what do I do?

Speaker 1 16:31

And this story is always one that makes me emotional because it's like one of my favorite stories, but it's also one of the saddest stories about our relationship and my grandpa. And towards the end of his life, when he wasn't doing treatments anymore, and again I lived with my grandparents, my mom and my sisters, we all live there and my grandpa was sitting at the table and I would have breakfast with him and one day he starts to cry and I'm a young girl and I look over at him and I we would call him Tito because my, my oldest cousin couldn't say abuelito, and so we grew up calling him Tito and I'm like Tito, what's wrong? And he looks at me and just says I'm really gonna miss my girls. And that was the moment I knew he knew too, and in that moment I remember and so much love, like, wow, this man loves me so much and he's so sad he's not going to get to be here as we grow up. And I'm sad about this too, and having that connection point to this day, like it is an emotional moment that I think about all the time, because I wouldn't trade that Like I wouldn't trade that moment of feeling that love for all of the sorrow that came later after he passed away. And the reason I set this up in this way and I get it, this is heavy and sad and you're like bitch, can we please laugh, laugh. And I hope maybe that made you laugh a little bit um is because these, to feel this type of grief meant. Now I can reflect and know it meant that I knew love.

Speaker 1 18:33

And as I've been approaching the end of my marriage, a lot of people have asked me about love and my love life and dating. And you get all this different advice about dating yourself and loving yourself and knowing yourself and healing. And yeah, girl, there's a lot. There's so much that can happen here and there's so much that we can improve into ourselves, and we all come with these experiences that taught us what love was. So I don't want to say that I only learned about love through grief, but I think I didn't realize how deeply I was loved until I grieved that loss of the love that wasn't there anymore. I bring all this up is because self-love is a big piece of all of this, and at 11, 12, through this I'm not thinking about how I love myself and that's going to take me through these losses Not at all.

Speaker 1 19:34

But as I recognized grief as something that I knew, recognized grief as something that I knew it did help me love a bit harder as time went on, but the fear of losing that has now kind of stopped me in some ways, and so I needed to figure out a different way to cultivate love or feel it or identify it for myself, because I had been so tied to this notion that love was essentially your family and a romantic partnership and that's it. But actually, for me, love has been my friends picking up the phone at midnight or in the middle of the day when I'm like, hey, I just filed this paperwork and I'm so sad and I just need to talk to somebody, or me showing love to a friend and hey, I know that you're going through something tough, like I'm going to send you a DoorDash gift card because I just want to feed you. Like I just feel like feeding you is something that I know is going to help. And I really have had this redefining and this re-clarity of what it means to not just love yourself but to be able to open yourself up, to accept love, even in the face of fear, and grief is something that I believe creates so much of that fear, because the fear of loss and grief can be so big and it can hurt so much. So one of the big parts to learning about how to love myself was realizing that I had a lot of this unprocessed grief that was creating barriers for me to be able to accept love. That unprocessed grief also stopped me from knowing myself in certain ways, and so, as I talk about knowing yourself and having yourself, kind of who you are, radiate from the inside out so that other people see that and then they can see that and love you. Grief was something I had to face big time to get there, and I'm not saying that every great moment you have of love you have to think well, like there's going to be sad, that comes from this, but the more that we accept the impermanence of it, I actually believe the more we can enjoy it, because we know we're not going to have it forever. But the one thing that we can have, as long as we cultivate it, is this inner self-love, right, this inner knowing and this inner growing that comes from these experiences.

Speaker 1 22:17

I've heard this saying and I've seen it on TikTok and Instagram and I've done a post on it as well. That's basically like grief is just love, with no place to go, and when you think about it in that way, we all feel grief Like the destination is not grief, the destination is love, but it's part of what comes with it. And so, in acknowledging my journey with how I think about love, whether that familial love, whether that's the love from my platonic love for my friends. I've been saying a lot lately how loved I feel and how grateful I am for that, especially because after my grandma passed away, I felt like one of the people that just loved me unconditionally, no matter what I did, no matter who I was, was gone. She just wasn't here anymore and, depending on your own spiritual beliefs, I believe she's here, but she's not in the physical realm with me anymore, and so I feel like I felt like I lost a lot of love. And then, not too far from that, actually right before that, my godfather had passed away and he was also an incredible man and unfortunately had a stroke in his I think it was his late 40s, early 50s, and spent a lot of his life no longer himself and until he passed away.

Redefining Self-Love Through Loss

Speaker 1 23:50

I have all this unprocessed grief. I'm realizing that I'm grieving my marriage and thinking, oh my gosh, this feels like some of the stuff in my childhood, but this is a totally different person. He's still alive. Why do I feel this way and what do I do with all of this? And I don't want to feel this way again, and it was interesting because I almost thought to myself at some point this is sad, damn, like this hurts. And this is something that I am willingly doing, right? No one's forcing me in either direction. I'm making a choice for myself, but this is also a choice for love, for a love of me, and I didn't know or love myself for a lot of years. Therefore, I was like external circumstances, external partnership, this guy, this accomplishment, this job, these are how I get love, this is how I'm seen, this is how people will think that I'm great or want to love me.

Speaker 1 24:58

It wasn't until, like I said, all of these things were stripped away. Yes, the people part of it is the hard part, right, that's mourning someone that's still alive or mourning people that are no longer here. But I also had to mourn and hold grief and space for myself. I had to mourn a life that I thought I would have, the person that I thought I was, the way that I thought I knew about, the person that I thought I was, the way that I thought I knew about love and life and all of this I had been on a self-love journey already. And that mourning and that grief and that journey. As I was doing, some of my reflecting for this podcast episode was tying back so much love. Because I was thinking, well, I didn't really love myself or love this part of myself until I grieved this or until I mourned this. And so this was how I brought these two kind of concepts together and thinking, okay, love and loss, these two things go together.

Speaker 1 25:58

So much because, as you pull back the layers of yourself, you have to mourn that too and you have to grieve that too. So maybe you've never even experienced the loss of, maybe, a family member or somebody really close to you, but you've experienced loss. And what does it look like to experience loss within yourself? When somebody says I lost myself, there is grief in that statement. To lose yourself right, to lose the essence of who you think you are, who you think you're going to be, the choices you might make, or making a choice that's like that's not me, like you have to mourn these many moments of yourself to be able to then reflect back. And then, when you reflect back and you grow from it, you're like, actually, I'm now making a choice for myself that's rooted in love. And when you make choices for yourself that are rooted in love you can't go wrong, right Like you. Just you really can't.

Speaker 1 26:58

And so, as I think about the way that self-love has shaped me, partially it came through grief, because I had to mourn these old versions of myself. Now, when you're mourning old versions of yourself or you're recognizing other versions of yourself, that also comes with the loss of not just maybe a romantic partner. It could also be a friendship, it could also be a job, as I've mentioned. There's a lot of loss that can come with that as well. But again, the good shit comes after that, because had I not mourned the loss of not getting that promotion or not staying with this person, look at where maybe I would have been or things would have been. Things could have been so different.

Speaker 1 27:43

As I brought these things together, I've realized that's the foundation, that's what it is. If I can build on top of loving myself, really really loving myself, then regardless and knowing myself, then, regardless of the next loss or the next disappointment or whatever happens after this, I'll be okay and I continue to teach myself this and I continue to love myself through that, because I'm figuring it out right. I'm figuring it out what it is to love myself, which is opening me up to love from other people in ways that I never even imagined love would come to me. Self-love, platonic love, familial love these things are so much more intertwined into your life than you think that they are, and it bums me out sometimes that I've been so focused, I think, on romantic partnerships only in thinking that that's a sole source of love, when I've actually felt so much love from the people around me. And as I reflect and I think about the societal expectation of even being a Disney princess and meeting a prince and falling in love and happily ever after and not that I don't still believe that there could be a happily ever after for me out there at some point. But I don't want to wait to feel loved or to feel like I give love, because I'm not in a romantic partnership and the absence of one has been such a huge reminder to me of that that I didn't know if I was ever going to get to learn. And I really do have to thank my friends and my family because as I've reached out to them and I've let them know about the really hard moments, the really tough things that I've gone through, and they've created space for me, I realized I wasn't opening up myself to love until then. I'm not saying I haven't opened myself up to be loved throughout my entire life, but in a conscious way I realized, oh, this is them showing me love and this is me accepting the love.

Speaker 1 30:04

Sometimes, when we ask for help, I recognize it can be really uncomfortable. We don't want to ask for help, we don't want to have to feel like we have to rely on other people. You want to self-regulate. We want to do it all. Right, we're bad bitches, we want to do this all. And there are times that you just need help and it's okay to ask people for help. And when people show up for you in a way that you would hope they were, or even with actually, I would say, even without expectations makes it even better. When you have no expectations and someone just shows up for you in a really beautiful way, I think that that is love and it's these moments of love, love and it's these moments of love.

Love Beyond Romantic Partnerships

Speaker 1 30:47

I had a Galentine's this past February and everybody came dressed up, beautiful, talking, talking to each other, getting to know each other, showing love, hyping up that, and it was a moment for me when I had realized that time last year I had gone to a Galentine's and I had made friends in a time where I was going through some really dark stuff and I looked around the room, I looked around my house and I said, oh my gosh, look at all of this love. This was my first Valentine's Day without a romantic partner and I felt more love than I had in such a long time and it was so beautiful. Now I don't want to give the impression to anyone listening to this that if you're in a romantic partnership, like you don't really know love. That's not true. I am sure that you feel love from your romantic partner all the time and that's amazing. And if you don't, let's figure it out, because you should be feeling love constantly. I know my voice changed there, but it's the to remind you that you can open yourself up to love and that you can find love in more places, places.

Speaker 1 32:09

And so as this episode was coming up, I kept having this sticking point, this thought in my head of romantic love isn't the only thing that exists. But what kind of a love am I ready for and what kind of a love can I accept? What kind of a love have I accepted in the past? Of a love have I accepted in the past? What did I think was love and it's not. And this podcast I mentioned at the very beginning is a love letter to my grandma, because knowing myself is one of the loudest ways that I can love her. It's one of the loudest ways that I can honor her, and with that is the grief that she's not with me anymore. It's a tough thing to accept and it's a tough thing to recognize when you're like, oh shit, these two things go together and that's such a bummer because I just want to feel the good. But I hope that this podcast is reminding you and it's being something, it's being a tool for you to remember that we have to endure this tough shit to get to the good stuff.

Speaker 1 33:13

Not everything beautiful comes from something else. Beautiful, right, there is so much beauty that comes from the depths of pain and grief, and so originally, this episode about love morphed into an episode also about grief, because of how much those two things go together. But the beauty that is within both of them, and the question that I've continued to ask myself, and I ask you to reflect on yourself, is if I knew how much this was going to hurt, would I have done it anyways? And if I knew that I was going to lose my grandpa, would I have not had all of those memories with him? If I had known that I was going to get divorced, would I have not gotten married? And this thing has been coming up in my head more and more and more about the way that we all say to each other you have to love yourself before you can love someone else. Or how can you expect somebody to love you unless you love yourself.

Speaker 1 34:16

And while parts of this are true, I feel like we're also getting it wrong, because I believe that there are a lot of people who will love you just as you are, just as you are today, but can you accept that love? And, if you can, what type of love are you allowing yourself to accept, based on how much you love yourself? And that's why I feel like it's so important for you to get to know yourself. So, like my therapist says, I'm gonna make you sit with that for a minute. Okay, I don't love sitting with things and I'm trying to do it more. Just wanted to wrap that for a second and just have you sit with that for a second.

Speaker 1 34:55

But the love that we accept, I believe, is a direct reflection of how much we know ourselves and how much we love ourselves. And so, as I've been talking to my friends about dating which I know I know won't get to as I've been talking to my friends about dating and about men and about ourselves and our own reflections, I've been asking myself the question of if a partner was the perfect partner for me and was going to love me just as I am today, would I feel like I could accept that love? And at this point I actually feel like the answer is yes. If you would have asked me six months ago, no. Am I ready to be in a full-on partnership and get married again tomorrow? No, but I do feel like over the past few years, as I've gone inward and I've learned to love myself, I've learned what love is and I've learned what loss is, and I've learned how those things lead you through one another to one another.

Accepting Love in All Its Forms

Speaker 1 36:01

And so, as we wrap and think about the fact that you don't have to be fully healed to have somebody love you, you don't have to be completely knowing of everything about yourself and have gone into your depths and done all of the shadow work, but it helps. I won't even say, I won't even go as far to say, that you had to have experienced a deep, deep grief to be able to love, but I do want to remind you that there will be grief attached to it, and I believe that many of us everybody listening, myself included right, many of us have experienced grief in one form of another. Maybe it's not the loss of an actual person, maybe it's the loss of a career, maybe it's the loss of a friendship, maybe it's the loss of a pet. Right, there's a lot of loss that can exist, which means that there's a lot of love that can exist, and I don't understand how I didn't understand that sooner. And so, with that, I just again want to reiterate to all of you that love is ever changing, it's ever evolving.

Speaker 1 37:21

The way that you're ever evolving, right, right, love is to have a deep affection for something or for someone, and I want you to think about all the ways that you allow yourself to be loved each day. Is that by accepting a compliment from someone? Is that by having somebody really show up in a way where they're looking out for you? Is that a phone call? Is that a meal? What does that look like, but I think if you take a moment to actually sit and acknowledge love and where we see it, where we find it, how it finds us and what we are open to accepting, I think that you'll realize that there's a lot more love around you.

Speaker 1 38:07

Even if you're single or in a partnership, love is so expansive and it's all around us all the time. That's like a line from Love Actually love is all around us, it's around us all the time, and so I just really again want to invite you to think about it differently a little bit. If you haven't if you have, you've gotten to this point. You're not thinking about it differently. I might not be as great of a podcast host as I thought I was, but I do want to invite you to think about the way that you love and especially the way that you allow yourself to be loved.

Speaker 1 38:44

As we come up upon our next episode, we're going to be talking to a very close person in my life about knowing me and all the depths and exploring so much of this with me, please, and we're going to talk about partnership, so it's not going to be my previous partner, but somebody that I have spent a lot of partnership time with in my life, and so giving you another perspective on that. As I've mentioned before, I just want to thank you for taking the time to listen to this podcast. I recognize that there are a lot of them out there and I thank you for spending 40 minutes with me of your day and I hope that in getting to know me, that you were able to get to know you a little bit as well. Until next time.